Man Utd under Ten Hag is like Aston Villa under Stevie G now
Man Utd are a mess and some fans are coming round to the idea that Erik ten Hag is part of the problem. Plus, Man City âwonâ? Did they?
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Done with Ten Hag
There is a simple yardstick I try to use to judge a manager which is: âIs he getting the most out of the current situation and players? Or can someone else do more??â
For the last three years, I truly believe with good reason that Ten Hag was getting the max out of a squad which was quite rubbish, and he genuinely was doing it.
But now, after around 600 MILLION investment into players that he believed were the best and exactly what United needed, it has ended up being a disasterclass in scouting by ETH & United both. There is no one else who can be blamed for that other than ETH.
Right now, it has gotten to a state that even an above average manager would be able to get more out of this squad than Ten Hag is getting. A new manager bounce + a bit of refresh in the vibes around the squad will help massively along with our 10th fresh start in a decade. We are exactly back to where we were under Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ole, Ralf etc.
This exact moment and feeling has been there at some point under all these managers, and itâs just a case of deja vu after deja vu, living the same horrific season year after year and after year, mixed in with 1 week of happiness if we end up winning some cup.
This cannot continue. I do not think it is really that difficult to succeed with a club like United. If you cannot do it, no matter the excuses, the blame squarely falls on the manager and players. ETH is gutless and passionless. He shows fire when it isnât needed, and is sitting like a stone when some passion is needed. He picks the wrong fights, makes stupid excuses, refuses to take responsibility.
This feels like Aston Villa under Stevie G. The difference a manager can make is massive, and with ETH, I do not see any way back as the bad vibes have gone beyond a point. This is MANCHESTER UNITED! Itâs embarrassing to say that I cannot remember when we last won. Itâs weird to have to hope that we donât get trashed 3-0 by Villa and can escape with some points.
Itâs not difficult to be a successful club when you are Manchester United. Itâs time to stop using Fergie & Moyes & Glazers as excuses for what are basically just rubbish decisions made over a decade. Accept what all has been done wrong, own up to it, and then we can look at moving upwards and onwards.
Aman
MORE ON MAN UTD FROM F365:
đ Man Utd star âfed upâ with Ten Hag and âoffers himselfâ to Barcelona; Tuchel unimpressed by squad
đ Man Utd spared bottom spot in ranking of Premier League clubs by summer 2024 transfers
đ Premier League winners and losers: Ten Hag joins superb Saka in winners but Newcastle, Postecoglou blasted
Bias nonces
I have been reading F365 for a long, long time and I normally enjoy the insight of the 16 conclusions even when I donât agree with them. There was nothing to engage with in Dave Ticknerâs conclusions of the Man Utd game, just bog standard anti-Man Utd trash talk from someone a few pints in at the pub.
Dave is welcome to his opinion, but maybe if he hates Man Utd that much and canât be objective, perhaps itâd be best if he keeps it to his blog and doesnât pass it off as journalism.
Daniel, Cambridge
Responding to Vance
It is unclear whether Garey Vance is knowingly citing nonsense, or whether he truly believes it, but some of the items in his previous comments really deserve highlighting.
He claims âplenty of Liverpool fans questioned whether Klopp was the right man for the job throughout his first few years when things were ropeyâ. Iâd love to see evidence of that Garey; care to share any? The F365 Mailbox archive goes back way further than 2017, and other websites also have archives. Surely if so many Liverpool fans shared this opinion, it would be simple to retrieve some examples.
Turning to Gareyâs long list of supposedly bad results, he has included:
* Losing 2-0 away at champions-to-be Leicester in February 2016
* Losing the actual Europa League final, to the actual combination of Sevilla + Unai Emery, in May 2016
* A 2-4 loss to Manchester City that, as far as I can tell, literally never happened. I cannot find any result for LFC losing 2-4 to MCFC, nor any result for LFC losing 2-4 to any club in 2015/16 or 2016/17 or 2017/18.
Including these 2 results (+ 1 fictional event) in the list only undermines Gareyâs credibility. The other results are also not comparable to what ETH has presided over. The humiliations have come over a shorter, more concentrated period of time. There have been multiple X-to-nil thumpings by midtable sides â is Garey trying to convince us that losing 3-0 to Bournemouth is the same as losing 4-3, or is he trying to convince himself? Does Garey think that losing 5-0 to City once after ManĂ© got a red card (with scoreline at 1-0) is equivalent to losing 7-0 with 11 players?
As one would expect, Garey skirts past the whole âKloppâs side made noticeable tangible progress each season and never seemed for a moment like anyone else could do a better jobâ argument, which is the key point. Itâs also, to be fair, why it made sense for Utd to keep ETH this summer, despite his obvious failings. When Bayern are appointing the manager Burnley fired, itâs not the right moment to pull the trigger.
Garey is also uninterested in discussing whether ETH would be overseeing Utd hauling in 97 points this season. He only wants to refer to the 2 trophies won in 2 seasons, seemingly not realizing that us rival fans donât want ETH to be sacked, are desperate for him to continue presiding over this slowmotion trainwreck, and were probably hoping for Utd to not be beaten by Villa on Sunday for that exact reason.
Oliver (Looking for Calvino) Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
âŠWowzer.
After last weekâs capitulation against Spurs, didnât think I would need to write in again as assumed the Badwolfs and Vances couldnât defend ETH anymore, and I was genuinely shocked to see ETH manage (poorly) against Porto.
Yet! Weâre still here. Theyâre still defending him! 600 million quid spent! And no sign of anything improving! Actually getting worse!
Our perfect moment carries on. Utd fans are happy. None Utd fans are very happy.
Trust the process, give him another transfer window.
Lordy, Martine Mcutcheon, carry on warbling, your ship is not coming in yet.
David (Souness won the FA cup in 1992, we stuck with him, then we won the league! 30 odd years later, mind) Molby, Shrewsbury
Football has gone to hell in a handcart
So both City and the Premier League are claiming victory on this APT bollocks? Arguing through rose tinted glasses, not about whose striker is the best, but about how to interpret a 175 page court ruling. City fans are giving it large online, everyone elseâs fans are giving it back and honestly? Itâs getting increasingly hard to care. Football is just getting worse and worse.
Amortisation. Profit and Sustainability. Video Assistant Referees. State Ownership. The Swiss Model. Protracted Legal Battles. Itâs all tedious shit. Iâm always loathe to be the old man shouting at clouds about how things were better back in the day, but when it comes to football, they absolutely were.
I appreciate United being total dreck for a decade adds no dash of hot sauce to the chilli con carne of oneâs feelings, but itâs bleak. A shitty super league just feels like the inevitable denouement for all this shite where oligarchs, hedge funds and oil states wave their cocks at each and dickless online âfansâ bicker about bias in VAR and whether their club âwonâ the transfer window because theyâre amortising their new one billion pound striker for less than they sold 14 local lads for.
Am I done? I might be done.
Lewis, Busby Way
Man City didnât âwinâ their case
The reporting on this City case is a really interesting case in the point of motivated journalism and clickbaiting (and by extension Cityâs desire to stack up wins ahead of the kicking they rightly deserve) reporting a very complicated legal case.
In essence, the Premier League implemented these APT rules and blocked commercial/sponsorship deals that werenât fair value. Two City deals were blocked as a result. City challenged that these APT rules, as a framework, were inconsistent as they considered/acted on revenue using market rates, but not loans â having excluded interest free loans from shareholders, meaning there was other anti-competitive practises occurring. In this they were successful. This includes some of Cityâs rivals (Arsenal, United, Spurs).
What this does not mean is that City now get to do what they like. Or that the APT rules are now entirely invalid. Reporting as such is basically supporting a City narrative. Revenue and loans are not the same on a company balance sheet.
As an Arsenal fan, I clearly have a dog in the fight, but would also happily have interest-free loans scrapped/heavily disincentivised as they also create unfair market dynamics (although by this point, 90% of Premier League clubs are owned by people who could afford it). If they are considered in PSR (and retrospectively too) I am fine with it too.
But City are attempting to have the baby thrown out with the bathwater and itâs irresponsible to report rulings as their âvictoryâ in this way, even if it is just to drive internet traffic. And helping them traffic in âTop 6 cartelâ narratives too is gross.
Reporting on City claiming victory is fine, but you have to also include the Premier League statement which presents the nuanced/counter-assessment of events.
Tom, Leyton
âŠObviously the headline âhuge winâ is better than âaverage-size addendumâ, but it looks like this verdict isnât as damaging a victory as F365 and The Timesâ interpretation.
In the BBC editorial they wrote â Simon Leaf, partner and head of sport at law firm Mishcon de Reya, told BBC Sport: âWhilst the decision will be embarrassing for the Premier League, because in a couple of narrow areas their rules have been found to be unlawful, generally speaking the decision confirms that the vast majority of the APT rules are indeed lawful.
âTherefore whilst we can expect to see some changes to the rules going forwards, on the whole this isnât a resounding victory for Manchester City by any stretch of the imagination.â
Mishcon de Reya are pretty good at this stuff so I feel siding with them is the best way forward.
Also City. C&nts. To a man.
Alexander
A plea to Man City fansâŠ
If there are any Man City fans that are still football fans, please, do something. You are the last line of defense. The governments and judicial systems are folding to these rulers. Money, lawyers, yada yada. Everyone just too scared of the consequences. Thatâs how one rules with fear.
In the 3rd world country I grew up in, thatâs how they got re-elected too. Man City fans, you boycotted the community shield last year because of what time it was played, obviously you have it in you to fight the good fight. Itâs not about the trophies you have won. Itâs not about the football you play. Itâs not about the players you have. This is a bully, whose mafia boss daddy just paid the teacher and principal to shut the f*** up. A bully who is stealing your game. Our game. Everyoneâs game. A bully who is now demanding all the kids play all the games with the rules they like. Itâs like a ruler demanding that the whole country celebrate their birthday, and people defending it, saying itâs good for the people, they just donât know any better. The economy is thriving, donât you see.
Some will say that football has been heading in a bad direction since 92, and fair enough, but people within the game have been fighting the good flight all along, thatâs why it hasnât gone full MLS yet. The much hated Man Utd with all itâs money spanking from all itâs plastics, made the decision to put footballâs wellbeing ahead of the clubs on many occasions. What Cityâs owners have done is the opposite every step of the way. F*** it if football dies, as long as I win.
Zdravko
An actual Man City fan writes
For me (Clive), the most important question after yesterdayâs APT ruling is this. Does this now mean that F365 can stop churning out mini articles comprising of Keith Wyness talking utter b*llocks about Cityâs finances/legal outcomes?
Because thatâd be just great.
Also, really looking forward to Tuesday morningâs mailbox which will, of course, have a complete absence of apocalyptic âPLâs doomedâ talk, finger pointing, name calling, or any other form of knee-jerkery.
Mark (Manchester City. Oh, the horror) MCFC
If itâs up there, Iâll give you the money myselfâŠ
We asked 100 people whether Evertonâs official classless post following Gordonâs penalty miss will come back to bite them on the arseâŠ..our survey said!
Steve NUFC
