One ‘terrified’ and ‘comical’ England player sums up the Southgate era

The England fall-out has largely moved on from Harry Kane and has settled on that England midfield – devoid of creativity.

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England had children in midfield

It’s easy to find one reason to lose. Harry Kane is a big one. But I cannot believe the initial reactions. Yes he was poor. A statue. Of course he was. He has been for 12 months at least.

But Gareth knows that. And he supports him in the centre of the pitch with Foden and Mainoo. On paper it’s the team that got through the knock outs. So fair enough. But on the night they both looked like children out there. Totally off the pace. So we had an OAP and two minors leading the press. Against Spain.

Goodnight. Picked to pieces.

And it never changed. Or rather Gareth never changed it.

And please don’t tell me “well it’s Spain. What can you do ?” It’s Spain. But not Spain 2008. This Spain do have an amazing midfield. Rodri, Gavi and Pedri. Only thing is – none of them were on the pitch second half.

We didn’t get ripped to shreds by Barcelona – we got ripped to shreds by Real Sociedad.

So let’s call it how it is. Two finals in a row? Excellent by historical standards. But these were two winnable opportunities in two mediocre tournaments. Was the same in 66. Sir Alf got it done. Gareth couldn’t.

In 4 years Spain will have Gavi and Pedri at their back and at their peak- along with Williams and Yamine. If they find a RB and a centre half in that time we will be ruing the fact that we gave our two best chances to Southgate.

Johnno (top marks to Guehi. Became a star)

MORE ON ENGLAND IN EURO 2024 FINAL FROM F365

👉 16 Conclusions on England losing the Euro 2024 final: Southgate out, Kane abysmal, Rice poor, drop Walker

👉 England player ratings: Kane anonymous and still trophyless, Rice exposed, Pickford brilliant

👉 Southgate sack looms as Spain and ineffective Kane prevent ‘joke’ England Euro 2024 win

Declan Rice sums up the Southgate era

Gareth Southgate is genuinely one of the nicest, humblest human beings around in football. It’s clear to see in his 8 years that he has created a wonderfully positive atmosphere around the England camp, based not only on how the players talk about him, but also by how they behave both off the pitch and on it. The England team is – at the end of the day Clive – a really nice bunch of lads.

Gareth Southgate is also a very average tactician, who has once again thrown away a great chance of winning a tournament. He’s drilled into the players a cautious, reactive mentality over the last 8 years, where primary focus seems to be on (overly) respecting the opposition, rather than showing any bravery or taking risks.

The greatest example of this has to be kick offs. Is there anything more laughable than watching England pass the ball from the centre circle all the way back to Pickford to simply just lump it forward? Utterly terrified of ceding territory or taking risks, from the first kick of the game.

The stats from 16 conclusions comparing England at 1-0 down versus at 1-1 in the final tells a story that’s become so familiar to us now it’s almost not worth repeating. But, since it was so critical to the outcome of this game, it cannot be overstated what a fabulous opportunity there was to leverage the momentum of Palmer’s unbelievable moment of individual skill to take a risk and a proper swing at Spain. Instead, all of that momentum was frittered away by a team so precisely habituated to play cautiously at all times when not trailing. England dropped back, ceding control back to Spain, and suffered the knock out blow instead.

As much as there were so many disappointing performance throughout this tournament, there is one player that absolutely embodies this Southgate era. And that is the undroppable Declan Rice. A midfield player in the pivot, a position of such importance moving the ball through the thirds. At Arsenal: brave, dynamic, forward thinking. Under Southgate, it’s actually painful watching him look terrified on the ball, of passing the ball forward or between the lines. The build up play through Rice this tournament has been nothing short of comical.

Southgate has created a strong foundation of vibes and friendship, which can go far in international football. But to now really get over the line, it’s now time to bring in someone who will build upon that foundation with principles that unlock this deeply talented group of players to play with freedom, bravery, and intensity. And who also isn’t afraid to a true meritocracy based on actual performances for England in the tournament at the time, not just on previous reputation.

The Casual Observer

On Southgate’s negativity and Kane’s undroppability

Gut wrenching…damn…I believe it’s a losing mentality that we suffer from. Moyes and Southgate are champions of that mentality. Our players are better than that now. We don’t have to play like that. On paper we are as good as Spain, player for player.

After the final whistle I spent an hour outside on my own “thinking things through”. Just came back in and checked what you guys were thinking. A place to consider what had happened and hopefully console ourselves in the F365 community. Player ratings were about right.

Then I see that Dave T had already posted (clearly written yesterday, can’t expect him to work on a Sunday on a Euro final I guess) a “Who will be the next England manager” article. Apart from being hopelessly wrong, this is the same writer who championed Harry Kane before the game, whilst at the same time acknowledging that he should really be dropped for the good of the team. But also that our ‘captain’ was undroppable. Disgusting timing. Just insulting to us as readers and fans. But don’t worry, he ignored his previous article, and the game, didn’t address his shortcomings and moved straight on to the next, currently irrelevant for everyone, story.

We had a golden chance. They don’t come along often. I turned 50 this year and am still waiting. Thankfully we have a group that might be able to kick on for the next 3 tournaments. Hopefully with a manager without such a negative approach. And surely without the, absolutely obvious to everyone but Dave, certain other blind Spurs fans, and cowardly England managers, Harry bleeding Kane.

Hope fellow England fans are coping alright. 2 more years and let’s go again lads. Ugh…

Mike “we really could have won this….” WHU

16 drunken observations

Way too many beers for anything approaching conclusions so I’ll try some drunken observations.

1) Best team on the night and through the tournament won, congratulations Spain.

2) That said, football matches and their pattern are often decided by moments. How an earth was Dani Olmo (who cleared it off the line at the death) not sent off for putting his studs in Declan Rice’s chest. A moment which came before Rice’s stupidity at a corner that should have been a penalty. I hope this is remembered next time England get a game-defining decision in a massive match.

3) Huge fan of Pickford, he kept us in the game at times, but his kicking was atrocious.

4) Working forward from there, in some respects full backs did well – as shown by Spain’s extremely good wingers swapping sides during the first half. But Kyle Walker, even by footballer standards, is really not clever. Which means even though he is good for 90 per cent of a game, the remaining 10 per cent is worrying – probably not a coincidence the two goals came from his side. Also, would like it if he was better at kicking a ball and getting it to go where he wants it to. Shaw was great for first start in 5 months,

5) Geuhi and Stones were good as you can ask, again, given the opposition. Think we’ve finally found a Maguire alternative.

6) In midfield, sadly the game passed Mainoo by, couldn’t get on the ball enough given Spain’s possession domination. Not really his fault though, perhaps he finally found a big game being too much for him (fair play at 19). Rice though, whatever he is like for Arsenal, is very good defensively for England but really limited on the ball.

7) Likewise Foden wasn’t really able to build on his performance against the Dutch in the semi final. Again, not his fault, he perhaps needs to be in a better side who dominates possession to be at his most effective. Still, not sure what his specific attributes to win a game are – perhaps City fans could enlighten as they’re a fair minded bunch.

8) Bellingham fairly good though – worked hard and retrieved possession – but does seem to be getting a little too big for his boots. Possibly everyone (looking at you commentators) fawning over him every time he does a relatively basic thing in game hasn’t helped.

9) Kane. Always been a lightning rod for people who like to say mean things but realise you have to be selective in your target. But this tournament it’s justified, even as a big fan have to admit he’s been lumbering. Hoping he’s injured and that’s the reason because, as much as he has been poor, I’m not sure I see a good option as a replacement.

10) Think you are being pretty generous to Palmer in your player ratings with the goal. He’s good but that was never going past the goalie till it got deflected.

11) As for the manager, what a guy. He’s by far the best representation of what being English is out of recent managers. Lovely, I’m delighted with that, he’s a really good bloke.

12) But it’s time to go and try someone else. Let’s hope his successor can match his off-field management, which has been brilliant and, at times, bled onto the pitch. And also hope he’s sold his soul to the Devil in the same way to get incredible luck with the draw and injuries to the opposition rather than his own players. And finally, someone who can actually make good football decisions more often than not.

13) I suspect there will be a lot of one eyed discussion about him over the next few days (on both sides depending on whether you like/dislike his perceived politics). Yes, if you look at it one way he has been our most successful manager in terms of how far we have got since Ramsey. Equally, in terms of trophies won Ramey is top and Southgate is joint bottom, arguably lower than Capello seen as he has had more tries. Obviously both views are disingenuous.

14) Overall, a slightly disappointing tournament. Started off well (Georgia were great and fair play to the excellent winners) but got a bit stodgy with no games that you would remember as a ding-dong classic. Oh well, back to the mercenary marketingfest of the club game.

15) Much as there was a lot wrong with the Qatar World Cup, in terms of football it was very good – maybe a winter tournament sees players at their peak rather than knackered?

16) Lastly, thanks to the England players and manager. What you served up was often a tough watch but no one can doubt your effort and desire. With penalty victories, last minute winners and get out of jail overhead kicks we have plenty of memories. Here’s to 2026 when the proper football starts again!

Ronnie Buzzard, Manchester

England had a creativity vacuum

Now that the dust has settled, it has been another enjoyable tournament as an England supporter. I think Gareth Southgate is an excellently dignified gentleman and he has restored pride in the national team. Huge credit to him in many respects. But, the underlying issues must now be evaluated and reaching the final shouldn’t hide the glaring issues.

19th out of the 24 for shots on target per game.

21st for shots in the penalty area per game.

18th for key passes per game.

Kane seems to be the one taking the brunt, despite Foden having one good half and Walker’s four predictable moments of going missing leading directly to goals against.

To me, Kane resembled how Haaland would look minus De Bruyne service and Pep’s systems. He was clearly carrying an injury, but his service was abysmal. To create an aggregate xG in our first six games less than Croatia did in their three games suggests something is horribly wrong in our ball progression. Four moments of individual brilliance covered the fact our patterns of play don’t lead to big chances.

18th for key passes per game is probably the headline stat and, to be fair, it was obvious pre-tournament that the best passers from deep would be required. Wharton as a 6 and Trent at RB, anybody? Anyone remember any chances from the left? I bet Anthony Gordon doesn’t. We’ve once again done a Gerrard-Lampard-Scholes, this time in the shape of Foden-Bellingham-Kane. At barely any point were even two out of three playing well in tandem.

Off the ball, the details below of the second Spain goal amount to an example of negligence in how we are coached to set up our of possession, how easy it was it slice through us, why picking more and more attackers isn’t the answer and how picking players minus positional discipline can be our undoing. The frustration is that it has been allowed to play on repeat since Iceland when Walker legged it out of position creating a gap and they score. Equally, failure to address the balance of the midfield and the fading energy once we had got the equaliser cost us dearly.

Pass 1 – No pressure on the CB. Ineffective line of three, Palmer probably at fault for not dropping in or cutting off passing channel. I think it’s Ruiz who is completely free to receive and turn.

Pass 2 – Bellingham and Rice are both knackered and are too close to Stones and Guehi so Olmo is found and also has acres. Midfield is non existent by this point and Gallagher should really have been on to add energy.

Pass 3 – Walker is so typically out of position and fails to drop with other CBs. Oyarzabal spots that Cucarella has the drop on him.

Pass 4 (the cross) – Walker is way off the pace when he finally spots the danger, bearing in mind he’s the third CB. Recovery pace ain’t enough, Cucarella crosses and Oyarzabal loses a sleeping Guehi and does the rest.

The time has come for a changing of the guard and a rethink of how we play both with the ball and off the ball. If you’re in a game of 35% possession, you really have to be smarter than we were. And if you’re dominating possession as we were in the group stage, you need incisive passers from deep. Think Kimmich and Kroos or Rodri and Ruiz. Klopp would certainly maximise Trent in that regard. The 6 is the bigger question so let’s hope Wharton continues his trajectory.

Despite the defeat, big thanks to Gareth and the lads for many enjoyable moments once again. Analysis aside, they are a team that we can absolutely be proud of.

AC in Milan

A note on ‘best player’ Pickford

Pickford’s best moment was the save when he pushed it around the post. That came from him getting on the ball 10 yards outside of his box and refusing to pass to either of his centre-backs who were free and then launching a long hopeful ball that Spain counter-attacked from.

Pickford made 36 passes in the game and went long with 25 of them. He had a 55% pass completion rate. Simon for Spain had an 87% pass completion rate. What summed it up for me was when England were trailing 1-0 and under no pressure Pickford trying to smash a half volley as hard as he could upfield. Straight out of play.

J Shooters

MORE ON ENGLAND IN EURO 2024 FINAL FROM F365

👉 16 Conclusions on England losing the Euro 2024 final: Southgate out, Kane abysmal, Rice poor, drop Walker

👉 England player ratings: Kane anonymous and still trophyless, Rice exposed, Pickford brilliant

👉 Southgate sack looms as Spain and ineffective Kane prevent ‘joke’ England Euro 2024 win

A prayer for Gareth Southgate

I said before I’d shut up about Gareth Southgate, but I feel safe offering this encomium, should his time be at hand. Gareth Southgate’s ability to progress in tournaments made most of his failures quite high-level; when you’re losing finals and semi-finals, you’re doing something almost right. The younger players (other than Gordon, and a few others) will be stronger for the experience, as failure builds character in a player…until it becomes a habit.

Even if Southgate stays, it’s time to sit some of the older players – you know, the ones who’ve developed the habit.

Chris C, Toon Army DC

PS. Harry Kane’s record in finals is a Children of Húrin-level tale of grief and woe.

Southgate is the issue

I wrote in at the end of the last Euros with a brave prediction England would win Euro 2024 based on the players we had and how close we had just come. Three years later, I was almost right – but the only person to blame for me being wrong is Southgate.

There’s basically two schools of thought on Southgate. There’s the ‘look how shit we used to be’ point and there’s the counter ‘look what you could have won’ argument. I’m absolutely in the latter camp.

England definitely improved through the tournament as he cycled through his options – but his job is to pick the best 11 players to do a job and try and instil some kind of plan with those players. Harry Kane is woefully ill equipped to be in that plan or that 11. This isn’t a hot take- many people will I’m sure have written in the same. But it’s this sole decision that had the biggest impact on the outcome of the tournament. There is no argument for his inclusion (refer all the articles on this website which can now be updated with an extra column for this failure). He’s never turned up in a big game, and doesn’t know how to.

Spurs broke Kane – physically through years of reliance and playing through injury, and mentally as he now believes he is the Jonah wherever he goes. Curses are clearly nonsense – but there is a genuine one in his head to such an extent that it becomes self fulfilling.

Anyway that’s that – two more years of hurt to add to my personal pile that stretches back to Southgate’s first huge f***-up.

Andy Mac, Vancouver (somehow cursed with supporting the Spursiest team AND the Spursiest country)

Kane decision was ‘criminal’

When Southgate arrives as the manager, he picked players on form rather than reputation and they responded to this.

As time passed, he reverted to where every National Team manager always does, keeps with the tried and tested.

Harry Kane was not fit (physically) to play for England. Criminal was starting and kept on so long. A hero but rest would suit him better.

Paul

…Like so many others here, I’ve said as much just what– two, three, five mailboxes ago ?? “Harry Kane will be the downfall of this England side… If he’s any part to play in the final, please god let him come on late… He absolutely cannot start.” I’m exasperated beating this dead horse after the fact, having just watched the slowest horse in the England stable weigh his side down like a stinking, corroded, barnacle-laden depth charge.

Look, Harry Kane was the laughingstock bullseye of a laughingstock Tottenham Hotspur for a decade+, and just like he’s now brought all that laughter to Bayern Munich’s doorstep with his most wicked of curses, we knew in the interim the stench could possibly follow him on his national duties too.

None of this is to simply scapegoat one of the most talented English strikers of all time, and make no mistake he was often brilliant when on song. But he’s never won anything in his life, and Southgate picking this bum iteration of Kane over hungrier, fitter, sharper horses like Palmer, Toney or Watkins utterly beggars belief. This was blind man’s faith one time too many and now an all but confirmed Southgate death knell.

Play this Spain side 100 times without Kane and England probably win 20, maybe 30 times. With a crocked Kane, you might win five– and Gareth will get all the time in the world now to mull the diminished probabilities with flip flops on and an umbrella in his fizzy non-alcoholic. And slow horse Harry Kane will hope he gets something, anything out of a brief in the Bundesliga so he doesn’t have to stare at that sad, solitary Audi cup anymore.

Honestly I believe England are among the few nations that can win the big one in 2026 (and I hope to be geographically advantaged to nab premium stadium sightlines). Really though, let’s hope both Kane and Southgate are not within a million barge poles of that England setup when the time comes summer after next.

Eric, Los Angeles CA

MORE ON ENGLAND IN EURO 2024 FINAL FROM F365

👉 16 Conclusions on England losing the Euro 2024 final: Southgate out, Kane abysmal, Rice poor, drop Walker

👉 England player ratings: Kane anonymous and still trophyless, Rice exposed, Pickford brilliant

👉 Southgate sack looms as Spain and ineffective Kane prevent ‘joke’ England Euro 2024 win

Let’s all laugh at F365

Football 365 were Southgate out after the Denmark and Slovenia bore draws. Then they were singing Southgate’s praises after the penalty shoot-out win over Switzerland. Remember John Nicholson’s “Anyone who is critical of Southgate is practically a Nazi” column? Then they were definitely not Southgate out after the win over the Netherlands in the semi-finals. Now after we’ve lost the final to Spain they’re Southgate out again. Let’s all point and laugh at Football365.

Dan, London